Funmi asked Poju and Rume to help the audience better understand their position as in house counsel in the domestic and international environment. Rume replied that in house lawyers expect counsel to understand the technicalities of the business and the laws governing what the business does and to be interested in what they do. She said being a business lawyer goes beyond technical law to be aware that the essence of a business is to make money and balance the law with advice that would enable the organisation achieve its objectives.

Poju pointed out that for multinationals there is a complex matrix of reporting lines and other factors need to be taken into account. He gave the example of his company which is ultimately a US company so that external lawyers in Nigeria have to bear in mind local US regulations like the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act when working with them. So when engaging external lawyers he expects them to know he has such expectations and they should know how to deal with those expectations. He said when asked to join the legal panel of a multinational, it is a given that a firm has the ability to provide the legal services and what the client looks for is commercially minded practical solutions to their problems. This often means not 30 pages of “cover your backs” quoting the law but 2 pages on the legal issue that the in house lawyer can easily distil into one paragraph for the commercial managers in the business.

Asked how he meets those expectations as a private practice lawyer, Oghogho also emphasized the importance of knowing the client very well, including the deals the client is involved in especially when such deals are in the press as the lawyer can look very bad if he doesn’t know and will not be very effective in working with that client.

 

Asked whether differences exist between serving Nigerian clients and international clients, Segun (pictured) responded that commercial clients have the same needs whether they are multinational or local organisations and in house counsel are under the same kinds of pressures - they are regarded as an overhead. He said the key to having a good relationship with them is getting to know the in house team, how the legal team functions and what their objectives are. The best thing external counsel can do is to make in house lawyers look good by working behind the scenes to make the in house lawyer deliver on their own objectives so that they get the praise. He reiterated that legal expertise is a given and added that no one wants long summaries of the law rather clients need you to give them the options available, and they want more for less.

Identifying and meeting the legal needs of internal and external clients

 

Going on to identifying the legal needs of clients Segun said the key is to keep abreast of developments in that sector. Firms, he said, should invest in dedicated resources for monitoring developments in their clients’ sectors and developing knowledge within the firm on client sectors and industries. Oghogho was in agreement it is important to match subject matter experts to the work of clients.

 

When Funmi asked Poju how he goes about meeting the legal needs of his internal clients, he pointed out that when moving in house, lawyers need to have a paradigmn shift and demonstrate that they’re adding value (especially during a downturn), and show that they can support operations, HR, logistics, finance. He also stressed the difference between the advice which as an external lawyer you would have given to given to internal lawyers and the advice which as in house lawyer you give to management. Management advice, he says, is practical advice on what the company can do that is commercial and in line with both regulatory and local requirements, and compliant with in house rules. In house lawyers in his view are not ultimately responsible to the board of directors or to operations but ultimately to shareholders and they have to balance shareholders’ interests and the good name of the company with operational interests. Rume (pictured) added that it is important to understand what drives internal clients – whether it is profits or deadlines or targets – and direct the legal service appropriately. External lawyers, she said, would help in house lawyers by understanding these priorities of internal stakeholders when advising.

 

How the legal needs of clients have changed

Moving on to how client’s legal needs have changed, Funmi asked Segun whether there were legal needs which were paramount to his clients before which have started to shift now and where he sees those needs arising in the future. Segun replied that the needs of clients haven’t changed much. What has changed is how those needs have to be met because of the changing nature of not just regulatory obligations but also the pressure on margins and on cost. In the past the client was only concerned with the legal service. Now he is also concerned with the way the lawyer provides the service, the speed with which he provides it and the transparency with which he does so. The advances in technology, he said, have had the biggest influence on the way clients’ needs are met with clients now increasingly demanding access to information though the use of technology, transparent billing which often means electronic billing so they can see the breakdown of services billed online. Poju expressed the view that the high impact of recent regulatory cases around the world has brought a need for compliance. Companies now need more lawyers to help them meet these regulatory pressures and expect a return in value so in house lawyers are forced to look at more innovative ways of remunerating external counsel. So gone are the days of simply billing time as in house lawyers are looking for value and the more sensitive firms are adjusting.  

When Funmi asked Oghogho (pictured) what he thinks will be important to the way legal services are delivered in the future, Oghogho responded that what he has noticed is that clients are willing to pay a premium for quality work and international clients see absence of conflict and quality as more crucial than pricing. He added that these firms expect you to be more responsive and make the most of technology like blackberries.  Rume added that in her experience the recession has caused business to be more innovative to stay afloat and in house lawyers have to flow with new ideas. She expressed the view that cost is often important for Nigerian businesses and external lawyers as partners to the business should appreciate that.

From the audience Ola Alokolaro of Advoccat asked if numbers matter. Poju disagreed with the point Soji Awogbade made in the video in that regard saying in his experience, it is what is delivered and not numbers that matter and with Nigerian firms now in active competition with international law firms that can provide 24 hour advice from various locations the important thing is to deliver on time. Segun Akerele asked the panel to explain further what they mean by business advice. Rume replied that it means not just stating the law but how the legal opinion applies with regard to the situation at hand – “can I do what I want to do? And if I can, how do I do it?” So it is applying the law to a practical situation. Segun says it is not simply practicing the law but seeing what we do as lawyers as the business of law- in the sense of putting yourself in the shoes of the client and seeing what you do as a tool in the hand of the client and a means of achieving an end. He gave an example from his firm where when writing to the client, they do not include what a judge said but distill the essence of the decision the client doesn’t need to ask “so what?”

Developing products, pricing and adding value in the delivery of legal services

On legal services as products, Funmi said we have been seeing a shift away from providing services in areas of law to actually providing a full service to clients in a particular sector and asked Segun how he has been going about this. Segun responded that because law firms are traditionally set up to focus on practice areas, it is difficult to get lawyers to think laterally across sectors and requires a paradigm shift but in his firm, the move grew out of the success of a practice area and is definitely the way to go. He said the key is to encourage lawyers to work collaboratively to offer in depth services across practices as multinationals appreciate it and see it as a distinguishing factor. Similarly, Oghogho said his firm seeks to cross sell its practice areas and Rume indicated that her company buys specialised products so they can be confident the lawyer understands them. In the same vein, Poju (pictured) said that his company doesn’t buy services from “specialist” oil and gas law firms as he deals with day to day issues like employment, litigation, union, acquisition, and uses the different law firms on his panel for different issues not the one stop firm. He stressed the need for Nigerian firms to follow their clients abroad using the example of the way the international firms have developed their foot print by following important clients. Nigerian firms should be doing same rather than protecting market share in Nigeria they should be looking at opportunities outside Nigeria like Ghana.

On pricing, Funmi asked Rume how her company pays for legal services. Rume replied that her company no longer pays by the hour and now fees are agreed based on the value of the assignment and they would pay a premium for competence, taking their work seriously and for technical skills. Poju said his company uses a variety of arrangements like hourly billing, completion fee depending on the project but what counts is being flexible. Added value, he explained, is what the firm doesn’t charge for like sharing knowledge in email update on upcoming legislation or a training the firm can offer to the in house team or other things that can make the client’s life easier.

Segun pointed out that pricing is only one of a number of factors that meet the needs of clients and it is important to reflect the times. By sharing risk, lawyers can show clients they value their business by using creative measures like success fees. Lawyers have to get away from time billing and be able to tell clients what it will cost to complete a project including litigation which he admits is difficult to price. He said added value like tailored seminars are appreciated by clients and demonstrate that you’re interested in the client’s business and taking deals to clients is enlightened self interest.  Oghogho said that clients have been pushing back against hourly fees by looking to cap hourly fees or requesting lump sump charging. He said his firm creates value for clients by structuring deals for them and they also share the risk by using conditional fees - undertaking lower fees if the deal does not close because that is where the market is going it is where they’re also going.

From the audience, Adeoye Adefulu (pictured) of Odujinrin & Adefulu commented that larger Nigerian companies are commoditising legal services by carrying on litigation on fixed fee basis. He contended that litigation is an area where costs are difficult to accurately assess, and it is a problem that the fixed fee includes expenses and the companies do not seem to appreciate the differences in the different firms so that larger firms that spend a lot on technology and lawyer training are offered the same fees as sole practitioner firms. Rume responded that internal counsel have budget constraints and taking into consideration the entire litigation portfolio which could be up to 8,000 cases, fixed fees are the best way to handle this budget constraint.  Adeoye came back to say that volume would make the difference but Rume countered that because the litigation portfolio is spread across the country lawyers can only be given cases within their jurisdiction. Poju added that in house counsel have to carry out a risk analysis and because it is difficult to estimate the length of time it would take from inception to conclusion of a matter, if in house lawyers don’t cap litigation fees they can easily spend 10 times the amount claimed on lawyers fees over the life of that matter. Also, he expressed the view that the competition in Nigeria, with more lawyers called to bar in Nigeria each year than the total number of lawyers in Cameroon is a good thing.  

Henry Chibor of Solola & Akpana still on pricing, pointed out that after looking at the value of the claim, the time and resources it would take, against the fees offered his firm has sometimes had to turn down matters. He therefore wanted in house lawyers have to also consider the economic value of the matters they send to external lawyers. Dayo Okusami of Templars joined the panel, replacing Oghogho who had to catch a flight. He expressed a different view from Henry saying he drives prices down to help in house lawyers meet budget constraints and external lawyers have to know when they cannot take a matter. Poju said finally that pricing is a subjective issue which boils down to knowing your client. If you know your client well, you will know how to pitch your prices and match your own requirements with their own internal expectations. 

Getting the most out of legal teams and alliances

Moving on, Funmi asked Rume what she looks out for in the lawyers she works with, Rume said she looks for competence, lawyers who can feel the pulse of her department, who have a passion for their company’s work, who can run with the vision, and do the best to achieve their outcomes. For the lawyers on her team she said she looks for people who are forward-looking, confident, competent and willing to learn. She also pointed out that they should be willing to change as the business, its values and culture change. Poju said he looks at the individual partners within the firms he works with whether he can be comfortable working with them, trust their judgement and advice, and whether they can understand where he is coming from and the business he is working with. With respect to his internal team he doesn’t have a formula but has been fortunate to have a dynamic and driven team maybe due to being at the right place at the right time!

Segun said the way his firm chooses a firm to partner with is by identifying within the jurisdictions where their clients are active, which firms have distinguished themselves in a particular practice area. He said that beyond technical expertise, they look for firms that are like minded in terms of values, client delivery and project management. It is also important, he pointed out, to be able to work, get along and have a good relationship and share the goals of doing the job well and having fun while doing it. Dayo (pictured) said that depending on the type of work, his firm works with certain international law firms that have a focus on particular practice areas. He stressed that while they generally don’t turn down work as long as there is no conflict, they develop more relationships with the firms that they can partner with in working on and referring deals internationally. 

On ensuring that external lawyers continue to deliver, Rume said her department ensures that fees are paid promptly, they nurture the relationship and try to resolve conflicts quickly. They seek feedback from external counsel and don’t take them for granted. Agreeing with Rume, Poju added that his department makes their external lawyers feel they are part of the team - it’s a triangle with operations at the top, and in house and external counsel working together. He said that ensuring external lawyers continue to deliver is about making sure that invoices are paid within a reasonable time to help the lawyers feel appreciated and showing them the relationship is a two way street. So when they are adding value they are appreciated. With respect to the in house team, he ensures they deliver by providing challenging opportunities for them to work around the world in an international company.

When asked what his firm gives back to the external lawyers they work with, Dayo said that they are able to refer international work to them so its not just his firm getting deals from them so they can really “break bread together”. Segun said his firm offers preferred firms the opportunity to build a network of relationships by holding an annual conference of all preferred firms from around the world which has resulted in a number of fruitful relationships.

Managing projects and the client relationship